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PLEASE NOTICE: Posted by Mikaia (mbmonitor) on Sep 07, 2009 11:25 We have 10 visible forums to post to on the WND Polls Home page. We also have 10 or more forums on the WND Forums Home page. There is no reason to post on the forums that are not active on WND. I will no longer approve of the posts for discussion that are not visible on WND Poll page. Please take advantage of the forums that are active. Mikaia mbmonitor@wnd.com http://wnd.com
RE: thinking on tiller Posted by BM354472 on Jun 10, 2009 13:17 It's interesting to me that Dietrich Bonhoeffer was given a lot of praise, especially for his involvement in the attempt to kill Adolph Hitler. For his efforts, Bonhoeffer was executed less than a month before the end of the war in Germany. I believe Bonhoeffer's main interest was to stop the killing of helpless Jews. About 6 million Jews were killed just because they were Jews, Jews and others, even some babies, were condemned by the Nazi dictatorship. Almost everyone in Germany at the time either ignored or accepted the Jewish "problem," It's amazing what all of us human beings are capable of if there is no Higher Authority. Although Biblical teachings often are distorted and badly twisted, for over 200 years they have been the basis for the freedoms we have in the USA. The Bible teaches that God loves every human being but if we won't accept God and ignore God's clear teaching, it is we who reject God, not God who rejects us. Nazi Germany was ruled by a powerful, and well liked dictator. The Nazis appointed (In hindsight) very evil judges, they brainwashed kids in school; brainwashed adults through the media, including newspapers, magazines, and radio (they would have used TV if it was available); and many churches, but not all, were corrupted by their anti-Christian agenda. These factors allowed the most educated people in the world in the 1920's & 30's to carry out such great evil that included the holocaust. Just over a year and a half after Hitler came to power, on August 19, 1934, 90% of these highly educated voters supported Hitler’s agenda. I believe over 50 million helpless babies have been killed. I don't agree with everything Bonhoeffer taught. But I wonder if trying to kill Hitler to stop the killing of helpless Jews, even though killing Jews was "legal" in Nazi Germany, was not the right thing to do. Is killing far more helpless babies for our convenience the right thing to do because some Nazi type judges claim it is legal? It seems to me the biggest problem all of us humans have is our desire for power and to be in control, even of others, if they let us. You can see the desire for power in babies, school kids and most of all people in leadership roles in business, unions, and schools. Of course the most dangerous of all, as shown again and ... (Edited for 400 word limit)
Reply to: rereI categorize this situation in my mind along with those who "live by the sword will die by the sword."
RE: RE: Finally, Justice Posted by Lives4Him on Jun 10, 2009 11:19 Yeah, and if 3rd trimester abortions are legal, why aren't 204th trimester abortions? We'll get to see that in action when El Presidente initiates the country's eugenics program (once he sees that socialized health care only results in too little health care to go around), and our elderly subsequently have late, late, LATE term abortions forced upon them. A man that can harden his heart so much that he happily lets babies surviving abortions lay in little metal pans in broom closets until they die will have no problem whatsoever in letting your parents die (unnecessarily), or letting YOU die, especially if you are not in one of the "approved" classes.
Reply to: Rooster CogburnSo Tiller was aborted! Big deal...This sounds like a job for the Common Law Court System, which was abandoned in this country in favor of Admiralty Law. A ringing verdict of guilty from the people of this country is all the sanction needed. Abort all the abortionists and let God sort 'em out...
RE: Finally, Justice Posted by Rooster Cogburn on Jun 09, 2009 12:21 So Tiller was aborted! Big deal...This sounds like a job for the Common Law Court System, which was abandoned in this country in favor of Admiralty Law. A ringing verdict of guilty from the people of this country is all the sanction needed. Abort all the abortionists and let God sort 'em out...
Reply to: by316387It was sad that the Killer's family had to witness justice administered to him while he was in "church". However, Tiller's execution for his crimes was long overdue. It has been reported that he was responsible for the slaughter of over 60,000 precious, innocent babies. 60,000! 60,000!! SIXTY THOUSAND!!! Tiller burnt, dismembered, decapitated, and destroyed what would be a larger population than most American towns. In the 30's and early 40's we called him Hitler. But Tiller's crimes were even more dispicable and heinous. Not only did he murder the most-innocent of victims who neither had the power or voice to defend themselves, BUT HE BECAME A MILLIONAIRE FROM THE SHEDDING OF THEIR BLOOD! He amounted to one of the worst serial mass-murderers in all of history! Every other baby-murderer should be put on notice now! Although you may escape ultimate justice in this life that finally caught up with Tiller the Baby-Killer (some of you will not), you can be assured that unless you repent of your most-evil of deeds, your place in hell is going to be very, VERY HOT! Byrch Griffin Maple Hill, NC
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: a crime of hate Posted by BM354472 on Jun 08, 2009 14:02 It's interesting to me that Dietrich Bonhoeffer was given a lot of praise, especially for his involvement in the attempt to kill Adolph Hitler. For his efforts, Bonhoeffer was executed less than a month before the end of the war in Germany. I believe Bonhoeffer's main interest was to stop the killing of helpless Jews. About 6 million Jews were killed just because they were Jews and Jews were not wanted by the Nazi dictatorship. Almost everyone in Germany at the time either ignored or accepted the Jewish "problem," It's amazing what we humans are capable of if there is no Higher Authority. Although Biblical teachings often are distorted and badly twisted, for over 200 years they have been the basis for the freedoms we have in the USA. The Bible teaches that God loves every human being but if we won't accept God and ignore God's clear teaching, it is we who reject God, not God who rejects us. It was a powerful dictatorship together with the judges they appointed, brainwashing of kids in school, biased media and corrupted weak churches who allowed the most educated people in the world in the 1920's & 30's to carry out such great evil that included the holocaust. I believe over 50 million helpless babies have been killed. I don't agree with everything Bonhoeffer taught. But I wonder if trying to kill Hitler to stop the killing of helpless Jews, even though killing Jews was "legal" in Nazi Germany, was not the right thing to do. Is killing helpless babies for our convenience the right thing to do because some Nazi type judges made it legal? It seems to me the biggest problem all of us humans have is our desire for power and to be in control even of others if they let us. You can see the desire for power in babies, school kids and most of all people in leadership roles in business, unions, and schools. Of course the most dangerous of all in government and very biased media. Some power is legitimate and required for a society to exist. But, when a government gets out of control, people rise up as they did 20 years ago in China. The question in this case is whether the government should allow wholesale murder? In limited cases where another person's life is at stake or in the case of a major crime killing may be justified. However, ...
Reply to: DorchesterThe proverbial "perfect post". Tiller's murderer did a heinous act. Tiller worked legally within the government's laws. You don't like the law? Too bad.
Murder is wrong Posted by Dawn6863 on Jun 07, 2009 19:43 Though I will not mourn the death of Tiller murder is wrong. It does not help our cause because the media will paint us all with the same brush. I do not think it should be called terrorism either because the population is not in any danger. This was one man who killed another man. He should be tried as an individual not as a symbol of the pro-life movement
RE: A View to a Kill Posted by Mamey on Jun 07, 2009 14:26 Having an abortion is a personal moral decision as it is committing adultery, or being a homosexual...These are choices made by man because God gave each of us FREE WILL..God did not want robots, so He put into us the ability to make choices. He prefers that people make the right choices, and that they come to Him because they believe in Him, and because they are willing to submitt to His Sovereign will for their lives. Many people do not have a relationship with God because they do not want to, or because they consider Him irrelevant, not real, or simply because they do not want to be accountable to anyone for their actions. That is still a personal choice. But sadly, without God, respect for LAW also becomes a matter of the will, a choice as well. A woman expecting a severly deformed child does have the right to abort that baby if she so wishes, even if it is not pleasing to God. God gave her that right...Remember "Free will," and it is a matter between God and her. God did say "Do not commit murder" but He does not beat you down into accepting it...He hopes that we learn that as we come into a relationship with Him, and become convicted of what is and not pleasing to Him. To submit to God and His commands it is still a matter of choice. The objectionable fact is when government steps in and facilitates abortion on demand for anyone just because they chose to abort. Dr. Tiller was making good money performing these abortions, aided by monies my taxes provide, and I do not believe in government sponsored abortion on demand. I also disapprove of all the evils done to children, too young to know better when they come to an abortionist without parental consent...If the government is not in the business of promoting religion, it should neither be in the business of promoting evil while expecting my taxes to finance it..I do not condone the killing of Dr. Tiller..I believe the killer took away Dr. Tiller's right to life as well...His killer also took away the chance for this misguided man the opportunity to know God in a real way. Dr. Tiller (and any other abortionist) also took away the right of each child they abort to get ...
Reply to: Seaurchin75 I believe that there are times when an abortion at any stage of pregnancy is justified. If the unborn baby is determined to be horribly disabled or deformed mentally or physical so that it will be unable to lead a full and basically normal life an abortion is more humane and merciful to both it and the family. Babies are at enough risk after birth of having horrible injuries and crippling injuries. They shouldn't have to begin life that way. I do not believe that God causes these mistakes or that he chooses certain couples to be the parents.. I include Down's among these mistakes. And some genetic diseases such as Huntington's. I also include rape, as no woman should be required to bear the child of a rapist. The woman comes first. Those who do not believe in abortion but would pass laws prohibiting other women from having abortions, should be required to raise these children themselves. The government, organizations, and individual busy-bodies should not be able to make laws the require any woman to bear a child. There should be no laws at all. Most women do not want to have an abortion. It is an agonizing decision. But it is the woman who carries the child, the woman who bears it, and she should be able to make that decision herself. Her physical and mental health and well-being and her needs should be primary.
Freedom and Consequence Posted by AEllis on Jun 07, 2009 13:05 I have never been a fan of my own fellow Christians basing thier every argument on a moral code specific to their belief system, and I sympathize with the frustrations that are bound to result. We do not live in a theocracy. There are two points of interest that catch my attention, however. 1. "Christians trying to impose their beliefs on others" is an interesting statement. Freedom of religion is as much a necessity to Christianity as it is to civil freedom, in that one must necessarily choose of their own volition to abide by the belief structure to obtain any merit. This is, in fact, a fundamental component of the Christian beleif system - that the beleiver must choose the path, not be forced down it. The concept of Freedom of Religion in civics is in part a consequence of this fundemantal premise. This is a premise as fundamental to civil government as the premise that all men are created equal and endowed with certain inalienable rights - most fundamental being the life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These fundamental rights (and in large part all the civil liberties the founding fathers sought to establish and protect), including freedom of religion, happen to coincide rather seamlessly with core Christian principles - whether by accident or design. Protecting innocent human life from murderous assault in no way forces my religion on you. I am simply observing a truth consistent with both my religion and my civil responsibilities. (Something Tiller's murderer clearly failed to understand). These observations, I suspect you will agree, are based not on specualtive fantasy but on reality. 2. Popular interpratations of Freedom of religion have taken an interesting turn in the past few decades. Originally put in place specifically to protect our individual freedoms to practice a religion (or no religion) of our own choosing, it is now commonly used to prevent people - Christians by and large - from publicly practicing. At the same time, there are all manner of 'new' religions being actively taught throughout the public school system, cleverly going by a multitude of names. All manner of Pagan teachings (openly ascribed to Paganism, which is openly identified as an established religion) are commonplace throughout or education system. Whether or not you believe in heaven and hell is your prerogative, and I respect that. Whether or not your belief system, or lack thereof, allows for ...
Reply to: SquidbiscuitI don't believe in heaven or hell. Belief is not a requirement to be a citizen in this country. So leave your religion out of the conversation, if you want to have a conversation. I get sick of so called Christians trying to impose their beliefs on others. They are no different than any other religion who pushes their particular brand of morality. What part of that is unclear to you?? I don't have to believe in any higher power or religion to be a moral person. Morality comes to humans as it does to any other herd animal who's very existence depends on treating each other in a way that promotes peace, safety and coexistence. All religion has done to humans is divide and conquer us to the point where we think it is okay to kill those who don't share our personal point of view. Besides, Christianity is based on the principal of love and peace. I don't see much of that in the words of those alleged Christians who regularly post here. Now if you want to back up and address what I said leaving out the heaven and hell reference, I'm all ears. We can have a conversation based on reality rather than speculative fantasy.
A View to a Kill Posted by Seaurchin75 on Jun 07, 2009 03:03 I believe that there are times when an abortion at any stage of pregnancy is justified. If the unborn baby is determined to be horribly disabled or deformed mentally or physical so that it will be unable to lead a full and basically normal life an abortion is more humane and merciful to both it and the family. Babies are at enough risk after birth of having horrible injuries and crippling injuries. They shouldn't have to begin life that way. I do not believe that God causes these mistakes or that he chooses certain couples to be the parents.. I include Down's among these mistakes. And some genetic diseases such as Huntington's. I also include rape, as no woman should be required to bear the child of a rapist. The woman comes first. Those who do not believe in abortion but would pass laws prohibiting other women from having abortions, should be required to raise these children themselves. The government, organizations, and individual busy-bodies should not be able to make laws the require any woman to bear a child. There should be no laws at all. Most women do not want to have an abortion. It is an agonizing decision. But it is the woman who carries the child, the woman who bears it, and she should be able to make that decision herself. Her physical and mental health and well-being and her needs should be primary.
Justification Posted by Spring on Jun 06, 2009 17:52 He prolly went half crazy after knowing so much about him. I did not even know who this abortionist was. I cannot help but see this man justified even though I believe in the sanctity of life, I believe in little childrens lives more than one who constantly commits harm to them on a daily basis and does not help them survive. One mass murderer dead, and somehow, I cannot find empathy for the dead yet do for the man that killed him. He prolly went crazy emotionally and prolly is not as guilty as everyone believes.
