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Sound off on the personhood movement and its possible impact on legal abortion

	The radical fetus lovers will leave no stone unturned in their war against women
	Neither this nor any other prohibition the pro-lifers can dream up will change the basic fact that woman always have and always will get abortions when they want or need them
	"Person" or not, a fetus is a parasite to the woman who does not want to carry it - she has the same right to not have her body used by another that a man has
	Americans support abortion and they're not about to be bamboozled into outlawing it by falling for this scam
	People have already reconciled in their minds any contradictions between the personhood of the fetus and a woman's right to choose - a law won't change that
	The personhood of the fetus, I have to admit, is at the crux of the issue
	I'm encouraged to see the prolife movement reawakening in this country
	I don't know if this will work at overturning Roe vs. Wade, but it's worth a try
	This could tie up in court for years any abortion-funding provision in Obamacare - that's worthwhile
	This approach is spot on - it could be a powerful tool for states to assert their sovereignty in defense of their citizens
	Other

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RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Constitution
Posted by Deek on Nov 10, 2009 17:21

You don't seem to get the concept that it's not just the woman's body that's at stake. There are 2, count them two lives involved. By medical definition, http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Definition+of+life Life begins at conception. Regardless of species or religious preferences. Taking a defensless life without due cause is MURDER. You may try to rationalize it however you wish, but that's the bottom line. That is of course unless you can provide further evidence to the contrary. I bet you're an atheist too are'nt you.

Reply to: H-Man
I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice. I believe a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body. In the times where I've been asked for my opinion I've said told people they should consider adoption. In my opinion life doesn't start until a baby is born. Yours is different. I think if a Christian woman was raped and became pregnant and decided to carry the pregnancy to term that is a good decision. I also think a non Christian woman who had the same thing happen to her and wanted to end the pregnancy is well within her rights to do so.

if you understand...
Posted by phubert28 on Nov 07, 2009 14:00

that "Pro Choice" is a LIE. That abortion facilities do NOT present a woman with REAL CHOICE, then look up www.hli.org and GET INVOLVED.

Dedicate SOME time to getting on the streets PRAYING and/or counseling.

I've only JUST learned of this ..undoubtedly to my shame.. but better late than not at all.

Yes, this is only ONE battleground.

The other thing we all can do:

INTERCEDE for our nation, our churches, our children, parents, our military. In other words "Pray without ceasing"!

Abortion is Murder
Posted by randy crawford on Nov 06, 2009 18:45

Abortion is murder. Anyone who doubts this obvious fact is welcome to try abortion on themselves until they understand. Until they do, they are merely lying murderous hypocrites.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Constitution
Posted by GG57 on Nov 04, 2009 19:05

Life does not start until a baby is born?
Got two words for you...the initials are FY.

Got kids?
Ever go thru the entire cycle of (in your case),the better half...and pregnancy?...To the day of delivery?

Ever see a sonogram?
If so...ever pay attention to what that little one is doing?
Did with my 3 kids.
AND I was there in the delivery room...for all 3.

You are a ph***in idiot.
(sorry Mik...could not hold my tongue on this one)
(GG57: I'll help you and do it for you, well partially anyway. -Mik]

Reply to: H-Man
I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice. I believe a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body. In the times where I've been asked for my opinion I've said told people they should consider adoption. In my opinion life doesn't start until a baby is born. Yours is different. I think if a Christian woman was raped and became pregnant and decided to carry the pregnancy to term that is a good decision. I also think a non Christian woman who had the same thing happen to her and wanted to end the pregnancy is well within her rights to do so.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Constitution
Posted by H-Man on Nov 04, 2009 13:02

I am not pro-abortion. I am pro-choice. I believe a woman has the right to choose what happens to her body. In the times where I've been asked for my opinion I've said told people they should consider adoption. In my opinion life doesn't start until a baby is born. Yours is different. I think if a Christian woman was raped and became pregnant and decided to carry the pregnancy to term that is a good decision. I also think a non Christian woman who had the same thing happen to her and wanted to end the pregnancy is well within her rights to do so.

RE: RE: RE: Abortion = Murder
Posted by Hammond Hank on Nov 03, 2009 15:31

Funny how they make it nearly impossible for most people to adopt, yet have no problems with murdering infants in utero. If an unborn child isn't a 'person', and if there is no God and therefore no moral law, then by the same logic, those of us who think there is can do whatever WE want to, now can't we? We can abort the liberals, etc. WE can and should ban abortion. Well, at worst, we can let the 18 most liberal states self-destruct. I won't miss 'em.

Reply to: CCC
Thank you, Japonica. Since the government sanctions evolution through the public school, that conveniently does away with morals. Leaving moral relativism as a "guide," whereas you and I discern murder, the government is free to decide who can die.

The government has very strict standards about child welfare and abuse. In some cases, rightly so. But the ridiculous contrast is that a child in the womb has zero rights. Be as grisly as you want, and the government will look the other way. The aftermath for women in terms of physical or psychological effects like depression and infertility? That's their problem; you're right, the government isn't interested.

Here is a prime example of derision towards anyone daring to carefully analyze, oppose, and point out facts about this health care debacle from the sycophantic media. See Sunday's comic strip called Bizarro by Dan Piraro. The last "scariest halloween costume" portrayed a "person afraid of affordable health care" while holding a sign with a Communist hammer and sickle followed by an exclamation point. His/her candy was dropped and spilled on the ground and he/she is wearing a Fox News t-shirt. Dan wants everyone to stop thinking for themselves and lay your religious beliefs at the government altar. Just trust Big Brother. Otherwise, you'll be made fun of. You wouldn't want that, would you?

RE: RE: Abortion = Murder
Posted by CCC on Nov 03, 2009 13:14

Thank you, Japonica. Since the government sanctions evolution through the public school, that conveniently does away with morals. Leaving moral relativism as a "guide," whereas you and I discern murder, the government is free to decide who can die.

The government has very strict standards about child welfare and abuse. In some cases, rightly so. But the ridiculous contrast is that a child in the womb has zero rights. Be as grisly as you want, and the government will look the other way. The aftermath for women in terms of physical or psychological effects like depression and infertility? That's their problem; you're right, the government isn't interested.

Here is a prime example of derision towards anyone daring to carefully analyze, oppose, and point out facts about this health care debacle from the sycophantic media. See Sunday's comic strip called Bizarro by Dan Piraro. The last "scariest halloween costume" portrayed a "person afraid of affordable health care" while holding a sign with a Communist hammer and sickle followed by an exclamation point. His/her candy was dropped and spilled on the ground and he/she is wearing a Fox News t-shirt. Dan wants everyone to stop thinking for themselves and lay your religious beliefs at the government altar. Just trust Big Brother. Otherwise, you'll be made fun of. You wouldn't want that, would you?

Reply to: Japonica
CCC, you're exactly right, on all points! I haven't read anything on the "personhood movement", as such. However, I know that if our corrupt "government" or the media in their back pockets (or "Planned Parenthood")are the ones who are "pushing" such a movement in a negative manner, I can guess that it's one intended to create more "legal" abortion. "What must the Lord think of a nation that allows this evil (abortion)?", you ask, CCC. Here's the answer to that question:"Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you...", said the LORD to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 1:5! That proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that an unborn baby is definitely a PERSON. Man's opinion to the contrary is worthless! Aborting a defenseless little unborn baby is nothing short of murder! Of course, all THINKING people know that. It's just the immoral "pro-choice" crowd who have no more respect for human life than they have for anything else good-and-decent. The IRRESPONSIBLE "choice" is made before conception; and there's no excuse for anyone to make that mistake, especially in these modern times with all of the means available to PREVENT it! I'm so sorry you and your husband were unable to adopt a baby, especially because of money! Just think of all the precious babies so many mis-guided young girls would absolutely love to give to you and others like you! How "strange" it is that the "government" doesn't publish any statistics re: the adverse effects abortion has on a large percentage of girls and women who've had abortions, especially since it's encouraged, and has been made so available and FREE, by corrupt politicians in government! Truth is, many, many of those "mothers" have serious nightmares, guilt feelings and depression as time goes by - some immediately, and others later - for the rest of their lives! Does the gov't care about that? Apparently not!

Feds can't allow murder
Posted by Caratacus on Nov 03, 2009 06:56


jdieter stated "Yes, if the Government wasn't meddling in our private affairs with our doctors, and followed the Constitution (which denies ANY power to the Federal Govt re: health care) this matter would be left up to the states. Murder is a State crime, not a Federal Crime."

It would be wrong of the Federal government to allow murder within any of its subdivisions.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Abortion
Posted by su359115 on Nov 02, 2009 23:56

This topic inspired me to edit and post a letter I wrote to the Right to Life Commission of New Mexico back in 2006.

You can read it here
http://paralegalnm.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/the-fetus-as-an-individual-invalidating-roe-vs-wade/

Reply to: su359115
Saul Alinsky dedicated his book, 'Rules for Radicals' to Satan.

“Lest we forget at least an over-the-shoulder acknowledgment to the very first radical: from all our legends, mythology, and history... the first radical known to man who rebelled against the establishment and did it so effectively that he at least won his own kingdom — Lucifer.”

Hillary Clinton met Alinsky at a liberal church group, and wrote her thesis on him . . . at Welesley College.

"You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." John 8:44

Obama worked for and within the Alinsky organization . . .

Judge Blackmun, who wrote the Roe v. Wade opinion, danced around the idea that the fetus was a person, but dismissed it until someone could actually prove it, rather than deduce it from a variety of theological, scientific, and philosophical concepts.

I guess he wanted a fetus speaking from the womb.

A fetus is an individual, a distinct human person. Therefore, it has 5th, 8th and 14th Amendment protections. In my opinion, abortion is essentially a constitutionally banned Bill of Attainder. Art I, Sec, 9 Cl 3

Under probate law, heirs are defined as those being in gestation at the time of the will, but "treated as living . . . if the individual lives one-hundred and twenty hours or more after birth." Uniform Probate Code § 45-2-108

RE: Abortion = Murder
Posted by Japonica on Nov 02, 2009 23:39

CCC, you're exactly right, on all points! I haven't read anything on the "personhood movement", as such. However, I know that if our corrupt "government" or the media in their back pockets (or "Planned Parenthood")are the ones who are "pushing" such a movement in a negative manner, I can guess that it's one intended to create more "legal" abortion. "What must the Lord think of a nation that allows this evil (abortion)?", you ask, CCC. Here's the answer to that question:"Before I formed you in the belly, I knew you; and before you came forth out of the womb I sanctified you...", said the LORD to Jeremiah in Jeremiah 1:5! That proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that an unborn baby is definitely a PERSON. Man's opinion to the contrary is worthless! Aborting a defenseless little unborn baby is nothing short of murder! Of course, all THINKING people know that. It's just the immoral "pro-choice" crowd who have no more respect for human life than they have for anything else good-and-decent. The IRRESPONSIBLE "choice" is made before conception; and there's no excuse for anyone to make that mistake, especially in these modern times with all of the means available to PREVENT it! I'm so sorry you and your husband were unable to adopt a baby, especially because of money! Just think of all the precious babies so many mis-guided young girls would absolutely love to give to you and others like you! How "strange" it is that the "government" doesn't publish any statistics re: the adverse effects abortion has on a large percentage of girls and women who've had abortions, especially since it's encouraged, and has been made so available and FREE, by corrupt politicians in government! Truth is, many, many of those "mothers" have serious nightmares, guilt feelings and depression as time goes by - some immediately, and others later - for the rest of their lives! Does the gov't care about that? Apparently not!

Reply to: CCC
Liberalism is truly a vile, immoral, Satanic religion which trumps Biblical teaching, decency, and common sense. It blinds its adherents and is the pinnacle of hypocrisy. You cannot be a "Jew", "Christian", or "Catholic" and simultaneously support the slaughter of the unborn under the pathetic ruse of "choice." Anyone advocating abortion is no worshipper of God. No one has the "freedom" to murder, and abortion is no different.

OF COURSE, an unborn child is a person. Duh! No brainer. It takes a COLD, heartless woman to intentionally kill the life God graciously gives her. It is selfish and irresponsible. Technology does NOT make it right. Medical care should SAVE lives, not destroy them.

Ever heard of adoption? My husband and I checked into it. The typical agency has a long waiting list and charges $20,000 to adopt an infant. We sadly turned away as we don't have that kind of money.

What must the Lord think of a nation that allows this evil?